Discussion:
mass-removal of LANG=anything-not-C.UTF-8 in packages
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-05 23:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Dear maintainers,

I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.

Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace glibc-langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.

I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.

Zbyszek

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Kevin Kofler
2018-11-06 01:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files.
But there are probably many more packages where the setting is hidden in
upstream build scripts.
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
This will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
Older Fedoras only since F22 updates / F24 GA, see:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=902094

And what about EL?

Kevin Kofler
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-06 08:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Kofler
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files.
But there are probably many more packages where the setting is hidden in
upstream build scripts.
That is possible, but I don't think it'll be that widespread. Gnarly
upstream build scripts tend to be old, and not all systems always had
en_US.UTF-8, so those script should do some autodetection of the available
encodings. Anyway, we'll see.
Post by Kevin Kofler
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
This will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=902094
And what about EL?
Neither version of EPEL seems to support C.UTF-8. So if somebody wants
to support F30+ and EPEL (or F21-) from the same branch, they should
probably add additional BR and use one of the more heavyweight locales.

Zbyszek
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Panu Matilainen
2018-11-06 10:10:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Kofler
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files.
But there are probably many more packages where the setting is hidden in
upstream build scripts.
Build- and various other scripts.

Is C.UTF-8 glibc upstream now, or is it still Fedora-specific?

- Panu -
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-06 10:15:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Panu Matilainen
Post by Kevin Kofler
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files.
But there are probably many more packages where the setting is hidden in
upstream build scripts.
Build- and various other scripts.
Is C.UTF-8 glibc upstream now, or is it still Fedora-specific?
It was never Fedora-specific. The original justification in 2013 or so
was "other distros already do it". It's just glibc upstream that doesn't
have it.

We still carry
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/glibc/blob/master/f/glibc-c-utf8-locale.patch,
so it seems this hasn't been upstream.

Zbyszek
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Panu Matilainen
2018-11-06 10:49:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Panu Matilainen
Post by Kevin Kofler
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files.
But there are probably many more packages where the setting is hidden in
upstream build scripts.
Build- and various other scripts.
Is C.UTF-8 glibc upstream now, or is it still Fedora-specific?
It was never Fedora-specific. The original justification in 2013 or so
was "other distros already do it". It's just glibc upstream that doesn't
have it.
We still carry
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/glibc/blob/master/f/glibc-c-utf8-locale.patch,
so it seems this hasn't been upstream.
Ugh, this is a rather cumbersome situation for other projects:
supporting and using C.UTF-8 isn't going to happen large scale until
it's upstreamed. And it does make one wonder what exactly is preventing
it from being upstreamed in glibc.

- Panu -
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Mike FABIAN
2018-11-06 12:13:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Panu Matilainen
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Panu Matilainen
Post by Kevin Kofler
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files.
But there are probably many more packages where the setting is hidden in
upstream build scripts.
Build- and various other scripts.
Is C.UTF-8 glibc upstream now, or is it still Fedora-specific?
It was never Fedora-specific. The original justification in 2013 or so
was "other distros already do it". It's just glibc upstream that doesn't
have it.
We still carry
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/glibc/blob/master/f/glibc-c-utf8-locale.patch,
so it seems this hasn't been upstream.
supporting and using C.UTF-8 isn't going to happen large scale until
it's upstreamed. And it does make one wonder what exactly is
preventing it from being upstreamed in glibc.
The current C.UTF-8 locale doesn’t sort correctly. It should sort
according to code point order, but it does that only partly. It is sort
of a quick hack. The glibc developers are working on a better solution
but this takes more time.
Post by Panu Matilainen
- Panu -
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Panu Matilainen
2018-11-06 14:34:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike FABIAN
Post by Panu Matilainen
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Panu Matilainen
Post by Kevin Kofler
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files.
But there are probably many more packages where the setting is hidden in
upstream build scripts.
Build- and various other scripts.
Is C.UTF-8 glibc upstream now, or is it still Fedora-specific?
It was never Fedora-specific. The original justification in 2013 or so
was "other distros already do it". It's just glibc upstream that doesn't
have it.
We still carry
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/glibc/blob/master/f/glibc-c-utf8-locale.patch,
so it seems this hasn't been upstream.
supporting and using C.UTF-8 isn't going to happen large scale until
it's upstreamed. And it does make one wonder what exactly is
preventing it from being upstreamed in glibc.
The current C.UTF-8 locale doesn’t sort correctly. It should sort
according to code point order, but it does that only partly. It is sort
of a quick hack. The glibc developers are working on a better solution
but this takes more time.
Hmm. Not sorting correctly doesn't sound so good when LANG=C (and now
C.UTF-8) is quite commonly used exactly for that purpose.

- Panu -
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Florian Weimer
2018-11-06 14:59:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Panu Matilainen
Post by Mike FABIAN
Post by Panu Matilainen
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Panu Matilainen
Post by Kevin Kofler
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files.
But there are probably many more packages where the setting is hidden in
upstream build scripts.
Build- and various other scripts.
Is C.UTF-8 glibc upstream now, or is it still Fedora-specific?
It was never Fedora-specific. The original justification in 2013 or so
was "other distros already do it". It's just glibc upstream that doesn't
have it.
We still carry
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/glibc/blob/master/f/glibc-c-utf8-locale.patch,
so it seems this hasn't been upstream.
supporting and using C.UTF-8 isn't going to happen large scale until
it's upstreamed. And it does make one wonder what exactly is
preventing it from being upstreamed in glibc.
The current C.UTF-8 locale doesn’t sort correctly. It should sort
according to code point order, but it does that only partly. It is sort
of a quick hack. The glibc developers are working on a better solution
but this takes more time.
Hmm. Not sorting correctly doesn't sound so good when LANG=C (and now
C.UTF-8) is quite commonly used exactly for that purpose.
Not all looks fixable to me in the current setting. We expose the table
layout via nl_langinfo, so that's part of the ABI, and the tables just
cannot express the sorting order with less than three to four bytes per
codepoint. That's a lot of data even if we restrict ourselves to the
modern UTF-8 range (those codepoints addressable using UTF-16 surrogate
pairs).

I think we could generate the tables on the fly if they are ever
requested using nl_langinfo. Not many applications seem to do that.
Internally within glibc, we could use a different interface to avoid the
table generation.

The table layout also has significant problems with expressing proper
collation tables. We need to investigate this more deeply, but my
impression is that the collation and collation sequence tables
constitute a significant fraction of the locale data on disk. Changing
the table layout again has ABI implications there, similar to those for
C.UTF-8, except that the on-the-fly conversation code will be more
difficult to write.

Thanks,
Florian
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Miro Hrončok
2018-11-06 10:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace glibc-langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.
I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.
Note for Python package owners:

Since Python 3.7 upstream (and 3.6 in Fedora 26+ [0])
the locale is automatically coerced from C to C.utf-8 [1].


If you set LANG=en_US.utf-8 (or similar) for your Python 3
tests/docs/..., consider trying to remove the statement entirely before
converting it to LANG=C.utf-8. The same applies if you already use
LANG=C.utf-8.


Zbyszek: I'm going to do this in ipython and python-django.


[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/python3_c.utf-8_locale
[1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0538/
--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-06 10:25:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.
I've done mapnik (which seems to be missing from your list for
some reason) and python-mapnik.
Arghhh! regexp failure on my part. I missed a bunch of packages.

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perl-Text-SpellChecker pghmcfc
perl-libintl-perl eseyman
pl bagnara mef ppisar
po4a athimm sergiomb sharkcz
python-argh cstratak
python-autopep8 mrunge ndipanov
python-cairocffi brouhaha jdulaney
python-congressclient mflobo
python-cotyledon apevec pkilambi
python-enchant cstratak mmraka
python-evic besser82
python-httpbin adamwill
python-httpretty jamielennox
python-jsonpatch apevec dprince skottler
python-jsonpointer apevec dprince skottler
python-muranoclient mflobo
python-netaddr jcholast jeckersb jhrozek
python-pankoclient pkilambi
python-pifpaf hguemar pkilambi
python-ptyprocess ignatenkobrain orion tomspur
python-py mrunge thm
python-rospkg cottsay rmattes
python-scandir aviso salimma
python-sphinx aviso cstratak salimma toshio
python-tenacity pkilambi
python-webtest bkabrda lmacken ricky
python-yaql mflobo
pywebdav sharkcz
rubygem-asciidoctor fale ktdreyer mojavelinux
rubygem-charlock_holmes axilleas ktdreyer
rubygem-coderay jaruga
rubygem-em-http-request jackorp
rubygem-fast_gettext vondruch
rubygem-gettext-setup domcleal
rubygem-highline jamielinux stahnma tdawson
rubygem-hpricot kanarip mtasaka
rubygem-i18n humaton jstribny stahnma vondruch
rubygem-jekyll-feed decathorpe
rubygem-kramdown mtasaka
rubygem-marc mtasaka
rubygem-minitest humaton jstribny mkent mmorsi skottler smoitra stahnma vondruch
rubygem-mustache vondruch
rubygem-nokogiri kanarip mtasaka tdawson tremble
rubygem-pango mtasaka
rubygem-power_assert mtasaka
rubygem-rack jaruga jstribny mmorsi smoitra stevetraylen vondruch
rubygem-redis axilleas
rubygem-rspec-core bkearney mtasaka skottler tdawson vondruch
rubygem-rspec-expectations bkearney mtasaka skottler tdawson vondruch
rubygem-rspec-mocks bkearney mtasaka skottler tdawson vondruch
rubygem-rspec-support mtasaka
rubygem-rspec2-core mtasaka
rubygem-rspec2-expectations mtasaka
rubygem-taskjuggler orphan
rubygem-tilt ktdreyer valtri vondruch
udiskie jstanek

Packages by maintainer:
adamwill python-httpbin
airwave c++-gtk-utils
akurtakov ant
apevec python-cotyledon python-jsonpatch python-jsonpointer
athimm po4a
averi kgb-bot
aviso python-scandir python-sphinx
axilleas rubygem-charlock_holmes rubygem-redis
bagnara pl
berrange perl-Glib-Object-Introspection
besser82 python-evic
bkabrda python-webtest
bkearney rubygem-rspec-core rubygem-rspec-expectations rubygem-rspec-mocks
brouhaha python-cairocffi
caolanm hyphen-grc
cottsay python-rospkg
cstratak python-argh python-enchant python-sphinx
dacav perl-App-PFT perl-PFT
ddick perl-Glib-Object-Introspection
decathorpe rubygem-jekyll-feed
domcleal rubygem-gettext-setup
dprince python-jsonpatch python-jsonpointer
echevemaster c++-gtk-utils
eseyman perl-libintl-perl
fab autoarchive
fale rubygem-asciidoctor
gil aspectjweaver
hguemar python-pifpaf
humaton rubygem-i18n rubygem-minitest
ignatenkobrain python-ptyprocess
jackorp rubygem-em-http-request
jamielennox python-httpretty
jamielinux rubygem-highline
jaruga rubygem-coderay rubygem-rack
jcapik ant
jcholast python-netaddr
jdulaney python-cairocffi
jeckersb python-netaddr
jhrozek python-netaddr
jplesnik perl-Perl-Critic
jstanek udiskie
jstribny rubygem-i18n rubygem-minitest rubygem-rack
kanarip rubygem-hpricot rubygem-nokogiri
kdaniel ant
ktdreyer rubygem-asciidoctor rubygem-charlock_holmes rubygem-tilt
lmacken python-webtest
mef pl
mflobo python-congressclient python-muranoclient python-yaql
mizdebsk ant
mkent rubygem-minitest
mmorsi rubygem-minitest rubygem-rack
mmraka python-enchant
mojavelinux rubygem-asciidoctor
mrunge python-autopep8 python-py
msrb ant
mtasaka mecab-java rubygem-hpricot rubygem-kramdown rubygem-marc rubygem-nokogiri rubygem-pango rubygem-power_assert rubygem-rspec-core rubygem-rspec-expectations rubygem-rspec-mocks rubygem-rspec-support rubygem-rspec2-core rubygem-rspec2-expectations
ndipanov python-autopep8
olysonek espeak-ng
orion python-ptyprocess
orphan rubygem-taskjuggler
pghmcfc perl-Perl-Critic perl-Perl-OSType perl-Text-Hunspell perl-Text-SpellChecker
pkilambi python-cotyledon python-pankoclient python-pifpaf python-tenacity
ppisar perl-Perl-Critic pl
rfenkhuber aspectjweaver
ricky python-webtest
rmattes python-rospkg
salimma python-scandir python-sphinx
sergiomb po4a
sharkcz po4a pywebdav
skottler python-jsonpatch python-jsonpointer rubygem-minitest rubygem-rspec-core rubygem-rspec-expectations rubygem-rspec-mocks
smoitra rubygem-minitest rubygem-rack
stahnma rubygem-highline rubygem-i18n rubygem-minitest
stevetraylen rubygem-rack
tdawson rubygem-highline rubygem-nokogiri rubygem-rspec-core rubygem-rspec-expectations rubygem-rspec-mocks
thm python-py
tomspur python-ptyprocess
toshio python-sphinx
tremble rubygem-nokogiri
valtri rubygem-tilt
vondruch rubygem-fast_gettext rubygem-i18n rubygem-minitest rubygem-mustache rubygem-rack rubygem-rspec-core rubygem-rspec-expectations rubygem-rspec-mocks rubygem-tilt
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Paul Howarth
2018-11-06 12:05:03 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 10:25:58 +0000
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
pghmcfc perl-Perl-Critic perl-Perl-OSType perl-Text-Hunspell perl-Text-SpellChecker
These packages all set either LANG or LC_ALL to en_US for the purposes
of setting the correct language for the spell check in their test
suites. They all build-require hunspell-en to provide the required
dictionary. Are they also going to need glibc-langpack-en?

Paul.
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-06 13:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Howarth
On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 10:25:58 +0000
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
pghmcfc perl-Perl-Critic perl-Perl-OSType perl-Text-Hunspell perl-Text-SpellChecker
These packages all set either LANG or LC_ALL to en_US for the purposes
of setting the correct language for the spell check in their test
suites. They all build-require hunspell-en to provide the required
dictionary. Are they also going to need glibc-langpack-en?
They are going to need to declare BR:glibc-langpack-en.
(The dependency was already there, just implicit.)

Zbyszek
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Florian Weimer
2018-11-06 12:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
I think this is a very bad idea. The C.UTF-8 locale is Fedora-specific.
It is not upstream, and it is known to be broken in many ways. It may
or may not match what other distributions use.

I have argued for some time that the locale must be upstreamed, but
unfortunately, I'm not getting anywhere.

Thanks,
Florian
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Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
2018-11-06 13:05:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Florian Weimer
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
I think this is a very bad idea. The C.UTF-8 locale is Fedora-specific.
It is not upstream, and it is known to be broken in many ways. It may
or may not match what other distributions use.
I have argued for some time that the locale must be upstreamed, but
unfortunately, I'm not getting anywhere.
Can we use glibc-langpack-en instead of glibc-langpack-minimal and keep
en_US.UTF-8 locale as default?

Regards,
Dominik
--
Fedora https://getfedora.org | RPMFusion http://rpmfusion.org
There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and
oppression to develop psychic muscles.
-- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-06 13:26:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
Post by Florian Weimer
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
I think this is a very bad idea. The C.UTF-8 locale is Fedora-specific.
It is not upstream, and it is known to be broken in many ways. It may
or may not match what other distributions use.
I have argued for some time that the locale must be upstreamed, but
unfortunately, I'm notglibc-langpack-minimal getting anywhere.
Can we use glibc-langpack-en instead of glibc-langpack-minimal and keep
en_US.UTF-8 locale as default?
glibc-langpack-en is 6MB, glibc-langpack-minimal is ~0. Pretty much
all packages don't need an actual language.

Zbyszek
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Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
2018-11-06 13:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace glibc-langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.
I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.
Zbyszek
[...]
[...]
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
rathann lazygal libmp4v2
Please add BR: glibc-langpack-en instead of changing locale for these.

Regards,
Dominik
--
Fedora https://getfedora.org | RPMFusion http://rpmfusion.org
There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and
oppression to develop psychic muscles.
-- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-06 13:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace glibc-langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.
I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.
Zbyszek
[...]
[...]
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
rathann lazygal libmp4v2
Please add BR: glibc-langpack-en instead of changing locale for these.
OK.

Zbyszek
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Nico Kadel-Garcia
2018-11-06 14:01:09 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 8:58 AM Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
Post by Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace glibc-langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.
I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.
Zbyszek
[...]
[...]
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
rathann lazygal libmp4v2
Please add BR: glibc-langpack-en instead of changing locale for these.
Regards,
Dominik
From pain with other packages that require language settings, such as
Chef, I'd really encourage enabling the existing defaults rather than
trying to modify all the packages. That way lies a lot of work for our
friends doing EPEL backports.
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David Woodhouse
2018-11-06 14:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace glibc-langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.
I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.
The self-tests for OpenConnect explicitly use cs_CZ.ISO8859-2 for
pathological password handling — using a password of "ĂŻ" (U+0102
U+017B) in the local charset and making sure it works correctly.

Do I just need to BuildRequire glibc-langpacks-all manually to make
that work again?
Florian Weimer
2018-11-06 15:02:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Woodhouse
The self-tests for OpenConnect explicitly use cs_CZ.ISO8859-2 for
pathological password handling — using a password of "ĂŻ" (U+0102
U+017B) in the local charset and making sure it works correctly.
Do I just need to BuildRequire glibc-langpacks-all manually to make
that work again?
Yes, or depend on the cs langpack. Similar for any test that needs a
non-UTF-8 locale.

Thanks,
Florian
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-06 15:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Woodhouse
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace glibc-langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.
I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.
The self-tests for OpenConnect explicitly use cs_CZ.ISO8859-2 for
pathological password handling — using a password of "ĂŻ" (U+0102
U+017B) in the local charset and making sure it works correctly.
Do I just need to BuildRequire glibc-langpacks-all manually to make
that work again?
That, or glibc-langpack-cs. (cs is 0.5 MB, glibc-all-langpacks is 25 MB).

Zbyszek
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Dennis Gilmore
2018-11-06 15:21:09 UTC
Permalink
El lun, 05-11-2018 a las 23:24 +0000, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files. This
will be backwards and forwards compatible, in the sense that packages
that use C.UTF-8 should build OK on older and newer Fedoras.
Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace glibc-
langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.
What is the change you are planning to put into mock and koji?

the build group in koji is defined as

<group>
<id>build</id>
<name>build</name>
<description>None</description>
<default>false</default>
<uservisible>true</uservisible>
<packagelist>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bash</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bzip2</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">coreutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">cpio</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">diffutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">fedora-release</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">findutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">gawk</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">grep</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">gzip</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">info</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">make</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">patch</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">redhat-rpm-config</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">rpm-build</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">sed</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">shadow-utils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">tar</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">unzip</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">util-linux</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">which</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">xz</packagereq>
</packagelist>
</group>
and in f30 comps the buildsys-build group is
<group>
<id>buildsys-build</id>
<_name>Buildsystem building group</_name>
<_description/>
<default>false</default>
<uservisible>false</uservisible>
<packagelist>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bash</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bzip2</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">coreutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">cpio</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">diffutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">fedora-release</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">findutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">gawk</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">grep</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">gzip</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">info</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">make</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">patch</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">redhat-rpm-config</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">rpm-build</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">sed</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">shadow-utils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">tar</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">unzip</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">util-linux</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">which</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">xz</packagereq>
</packagelist>
</group>

These are what mock uses to create the minimal buildroot in both cases,
neither includes anything with glibc, greping through the mock code for
glibc turns up nothing. I mention all of this because glibc-all-
langpacks is pulled into the buildroot entirely by dependencies, the
only change needed is to whatever package is pulling in glibc-all-
langpacks to no longer pull it in.

Dennis
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-06 16:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis Gilmore
What is the change you are planning to put into mock and koji?
In both cases, we know that bash and other utilities will pull in
glibc, which Requires glibc-langpack, and pulls in glibc-all-langpacks
by default. My plan is to add glibc-minimal-langpack to those lists.
It also provides glibc-langpack, and will prevent glibc-all-langpacks
from being pulled in automatically.

Zbyszek
Post by Dennis Gilmore
the build group in koji is defined as
<group>
<id>build</id>
<name>build</name>
<description>None</description>
<default>false</default>
<uservisible>true</uservisible>
<packagelist>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bash</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bzip2</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">coreutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">cpio</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">diffutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">fedora-release</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">findutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">gawk</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">grep</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">gzip</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">info</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">make</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">patch</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">redhat-rpm-config</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">rpm-build</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">sed</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">shadow-utils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">tar</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">unzip</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">util-linux</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">which</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">xz</packagereq>
</packagelist>
</group>
and in f30 comps the buildsys-build group is
<group>
<id>buildsys-build</id>
<_name>Buildsystem building group</_name>
<_description/>
<default>false</default>
<uservisible>false</uservisible>
<packagelist>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bash</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bzip2</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">coreutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">cpio</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">diffutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">fedora-release</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">findutils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">gawk</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">grep</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">gzip</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">info</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">make</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">patch</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">redhat-rpm-config</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">rpm-build</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">sed</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">shadow-utils</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">tar</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">unzip</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">util-linux</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">which</packagereq>
<packagereq type="mandatory">xz</packagereq>
</packagelist>
</group>
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-21 12:07:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dennis Gilmore
the build group in koji is defined as
<group>
<id>build</id>
<name>build</name>
<description>None</description>
<default>false</default>
<uservisible>true</uservisible>
<packagelist>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bash</packagereq>
Hmm, where is this defined?
Post by Dennis Gilmore
and in f30 comps the buildsys-build group is
<group>
<id>buildsys-build</id>
https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/pull-request/346

Zbyszek
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Peter Robinson
2018-11-21 12:13:41 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 12:09 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Dennis Gilmore
the build group in koji is defined as
<group>
<id>build</id>
<name>build</name>
<description>None</description>
<default>false</default>
<uservisible>true</uservisible>
<packagelist>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bash</packagereq>
Hmm, where is this defined?
In koji:
koji list-groups f30
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Dennis Gilmore
and in f30 comps the buildsys-build group is
<group>
<id>buildsys-build</id>
https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/pull-request/346
Zbyszek
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-21 12:25:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Robinson
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 12:09 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Dennis Gilmore
the build group in koji is defined as
<group>
<id>build</id>
<name>build</name>
<description>None</description>
<default>false</default>
<uservisible>true</uservisible>
<packagelist>
<packagereq type="mandatory">bash</packagereq>
Hmm, where is this defined?
koji list-groups f30
Thanks. https://pagure.io/releng/issue/7926.
Post by Peter Robinson
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Post by Dennis Gilmore
and in f30 comps the buildsys-build group is
<group>
<id>buildsys-build</id>
https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/pull-request/346
Zbyszek
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Rafal Luzynski
2018-11-06 21:14:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
[...]
Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace
glibc-langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.
Sorry if it's been discussed already before but one thing makes me wonder.
If glibc requires glibc-langpack and then we create glibc-minimal-langpack
which is empty and its only purpose is to provide glibc-langpack and thus
satisfy the dependency, then maybe we should just drop glibc-langpack
dependency from glibc and it would solve the problem? glibc-all-langpacks
could be removed rather than replaced with glibc-minimal-langpack.
The existence of glibc-minimal-langpack proves that glibc is able to work
without any external locale data.

Otherwise your change looks correct to me (although I am aware of the
objections expressed in this thread).

Regards,

Rafal
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Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2018-11-06 22:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rafal Luzynski
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Dear maintainers,
I'm working again on implementing
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_glibc-langpacks-all_from_buildroot.
[...]
Once that's done, I'll file the PRs to actually replace
glibc-langpacks-all
with glibc-minimal-langpacks in mock and koji.
Sorry if it's been discussed already before but one thing makes me wonder.
If glibc requires glibc-langpack and then we create glibc-minimal-langpack
which is empty and its only purpose is to provide glibc-langpack and thus
satisfy the dependency, then maybe we should just drop glibc-langpack
dependency from glibc and it would solve the problem? glibc-all-langpacks
could be removed rather than replaced with glibc-minimal-langpack.
The existence of glibc-minimal-langpack proves that glibc is able to work
without any external locale data.
Otherwise your change looks correct to me (although I am aware of the
objections expressed in this thread).
Things are the way they are so that without the additional step of
specifying glibc-minimal-langpack, one get's all the locales by
default. This design was chosen for maximum backwards compatibility when
the langpack split was being made.

Installing no locales by default would probably be the default if we
were starting from scratch today, but when the split was made, a
different choice was made. I don't see enough benefit to revisit this.

Zbyszek
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Rafal Luzynski
2018-11-07 22:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
[...]
Things are the way they are so that without the additional step of
specifying glibc-minimal-langpack, one get's all the locales by
default. This design was chosen for maximum backwards compatibility when
the langpack split was being made.
This case has been discussed during this year's Flock. Indeed,
glibc-all-langpacks was introduced for backward compatibility when upgrading
the Fedora systems predating langpacks. But it is considered a bug that
glibc-all-langpacks is installed by default. The intention of splitting
langpacks was to have only selected locales installed rather than all.
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
Installing no locales by default would probably be the default if we
were starting from scratch today, but when the split was made, a
different choice was made. I don't see enough benefit to revisit this.
Sure, this may need a separate discussion.

Regards,

Rafal
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Emmanuel Seyman
2018-11-07 06:49:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
The first step is to replace LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 with LC_ALL=C.UTF-8
(and similarly for LANG=, LC_CTYPE=, etc.) in all spec files.
[snip ]
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
perl-libintl-perl eseyman
This package had a test in its test suite that only worked if LANG=en_US was
set. Upstream released a new version with this test disabled so I've updated
the package in rawhide and removed the locale setting.

You can ignore this package.

Emmanuel
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Todd Zullinger
2018-11-11 17:35:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi Zbigniew,
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.
git amahdal besser82 chrisw pcahyna pstodulk skisela tmz
I'll take care of git soon.

Thanks,
--
Todd
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the
advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Joël Krähemann
2018-11-11 20:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

I don't care as long you leave the C locale on the system.

http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/gsequencer.git/tree/ags/lib/ags_regex.c?h=2.1.x#n43

FYI: the regexp engine behaves different as providing multi-byte input
as with C.UTF-8. In contrary
the C locale allows you to do match character ranges using 1 single
byte per character.

Bests,
Joël
Post by Todd Zullinger
Hi Zbigniew,
Post by Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
I'll do a mass update to use C.UTF-8 for the packages in the list that
follows, next week. I'll do test builds locally, and I'll only push to
dist-git if the local builds succeed. Let me know if you want your
package to be excluded.
git amahdal besser82 chrisw pcahyna pstodulk skisela tmz
I'll take care of git soon.
Thanks,
--
Todd
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the
advantages of making a disagreeable person keep his distance.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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Rafal Luzynski
2018-11-12 16:41:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joël Krähemann
Hi all,
I don't care as long you leave the C locale on the system.
IIUC, the C locale is built in and impossible to remove. When Zbyszek
said "remove anything-not-C.UTF-8" he probably meant removal of
actual national langpacks (including English) rather than removal
of other generic locales like C or POSIX.

I think that people were using en_US.UTF-8 as a way to force use of
UTF-8 which is possible with C.UTF-8 as well.

Regards,

Rafal
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